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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 2/2)
by Barry (63.237.125.21) on Wed Mar 19 21:08:50 2008 (GMT)
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Thanks much. I new this could be done, but never put all the pieces together. Will be using this for the 4.3 update.
eSATA would be the perfect solution for the external hard drive.
I've been trying to think of a way to have OpenBSD turn my eSATA drive on/off for that daily or weekly backup out of cron... nothing yet.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 7/7)
by J. Raby (74.59.152.153) on Wed Mar 19 22:24:57 2008 (GMT)
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> (dump -0f - / )|(cd /mnt/; restore -rf -)
For bonus points, it can even be done over ssh
(dump -0f - / )|ssh remotehost "(cd /mnt/; restore -rf -)"
I did that a couple of time at work to backup partitions to
a tape drive which was on a Tru64 box :
(dump -0f - / )|ssh remotehost "(dd of=/dev/ntape/tape0_d1 bs=8192)"
agreed, there's quite a bit of overhead because of the crypto...
nc?
Being able to do this sort of things is one of the reason why I love unix :)
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod -2/2)
by Lennie (82.75.29.106) on Wed Mar 19 23:27:16 2008 (GMT)
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I'm originally from the Linux-camp, dump/restore isn't really supported (Linus himself doesn't think to highly of it). And that's why I've grown accustomed to using rsync (over the network, a lot of the time with ssh in between).
It's just what I use, sysadminjobs are like perl, there is more then one way to do it. :-)
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 1/1)
by Anonymous Coward (194.245.32.131) on Thu Mar 20 10:10:59 2008 (GMT)
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> I'm originally from the Linux-camp, dump/restore isn't really supported (Linus himself doesn't think to highly of it). And that's why I've grown accustomed to using rsync (over the network, a lot of the time with ssh in between).
>
> It's just what I use, sysadminjobs are like perl, there is more then one way to do it. :-)
you could use xfs filesystems; their supporting their xfsdump and xfsrestore and it does a great job
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 1/1)
by David (76.24.31.220) (david@datashadow.net) on Wed Mar 19 23:56:06 2008 (GMT) http://www.datashadow.net
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You can also use rsync to keep your cloned copy up-to-date on an on-going basis...
One drawback to the the above methods is that they try to capture the state of the system while it is running. This can cause problems with open files (especially bad for databases). It's best to clone the system while it's "cold", such as booted from a CD or an alternate HD.
Here is one method for cloning a system that minimizes the time that it is off-line:
1. Start by cloning the system while it's "hot" (still up, running, and on-line). This does the bulk of the work, and safely gets all of the "static" data, while you're still on-line.
2. Pick a time when being off-line is acceptable. Shutdown, and reboot from CD (or an alternate HD, if you're so blessed)
3. Use rsync to copy the files that were "open", and or changed between the "live" cloning and the pre-rsync shutdown.
4. Power back up with either the the original drive, or the clone. Beware of changed mount points in /etc/fstab if you do boot off the clone (without physically swapping it for the original drive).
The rsync copy will go much faster than the cloning, since rsync will copy only the files that have changed. Rsync has much less work to do than the cloning copy which has to copy *ALL* of the data.
If there is a long time between steps 1 and 2 you can use a step 1.5 to do a "hot" rsync just before shutdown and the "cold" rsync. The definition of "a long time" is up to you, and how fast your data changes. Running step 1.5 can also give you a better idea of just how long your down-time will be
I've come up with a couple of scripts (BSD & Solaris) for both cloning drives and keeping the clones up to date with rsync. I'll polish them up and make them available if anyone's interested.
David
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod -4/4)
by Anonymous Coward (216.68.198.1) on Thu Mar 20 01:22:43 2008 (GMT)
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Usefull article, very important matter, thank you and comments help. Why not OpenBSD FAQ 4.13, use siteXX.tgz method. Haven't used it yet. Gzip, grr, sometimes compression programs have security issues, even file program in OpenBSD 4.1, had issues.
Dump/restore, grr, even different versions of the filesystem, from 3.9 to 4.2, things get a bit fscked and versions have subtle differences.
Upgrades really are just +.1 version! But sometimes having older systems is REAL WORLD and no upgrade, thus a verified method is needed. I reinstall, move lots, disk to disk/s. GRR. This is JUST for content that doesn't deal with symbolic links issues. GRR.
Sysadmin requires some sanity and ease of use and lack of PAIN. As is obvious, I need to work on this subject more. Lots of different ways.
I have been thinking about a custom mtree method to verify files and the new OS with necessary changes, GRR, haven't done yet, wonder if any have gone down this path? Sure would be nice if mtree had a few little additions for this use, like translation lists, and compliance to custom lists, if deemed appropriate, although why reinvent the wheel of siteXX.tgz, and install script? Perhaps mtree might have more checking, although YMMV. Aide program as well, might be an option, but it is complex and had some security issues in past as well. GRR, sure takes a long time to get some SOLID procedures down SQUARE that last from release to release for YEARS!
Perhaps a good FAQ/FGA for this could help for environments where versions are different, and perhaps across BSD systems. Yeah, I like to be spoiled.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Marc Espie (213.41.185.88) (espie@openbsd.org) on Fri Mar 21 17:20:47 2008 (GMT)
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> Upgrades really are just +.1 version! But sometimes having older systems is REAL WORLD and no upgrade, thus a verified method is needed. I reinstall, move lots, disk to disk/s. GRR. This is JUST for content that doesn't deal with symbolic links issues. GRR.
Actually, updating the system over several releases doesn't work that bad.
I updated a system from 3.6 to 4.3 for tests, and I was very pleased with how little breakage I got.
Make no mistakes, things are steadily improving, and this is not a trend I see going backwards.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/2)
by Anonymous Coward (208.77.91.37) on Thu Mar 20 06:17:58 2008 (GMT)
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While cloning disks is good I've always felt that upgrade path for OpenBSD is a little rough.
Some other unix-like operating systems have come up with tools that perform the all necessary operations (apt, yum). Yes, I know BSD is not the same but that does not mean it can't become easier.
The same applies also to patch branch. I think it would be very nice to be able to have a binary upgrade option available to follow the stable.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/2)
by kiriakos mountakis (62.103.255.186) on Thu Mar 20 09:43:32 2008 (GMT)
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> While cloning disks is good I've always felt that upgrade path for OpenBSD is a little rough.
>
> Some other unix-like operating systems have come up with tools that perform the all necessary operations (apt, yum). Yes, I know BSD is not the same but that does not mean it can't become easier.
>
How can you favour "run apt-get dist-upgrade and no matter what site configuration, no matter what version you're upgrading to, everything will will work fine." over OpenBSD's upgrade support (detailed description of possible problems you would encounter for each specific release, in the upgrade-guide, for both base system and ports??!)
I mean, that's a feature unique to OpenBSD, wich AMONGS OTHERS, proves it's quality.I personally tried to find this kind of upgrade support and i was totally dissapointed by all other BSD flavours too.
Really weird stuff..maybe you're just running a desktop system, so that when the weather report desktop applet malfunctions after an upgrade, its OK.
PS: I've been a debian/ubuntu administrator for years.So many multiple frustrations from upgrades..
> The same applies also to patch branch. I think it would be very nice to be able to have a binary upgrade option available to follow the stable.
It never took me more than 15minutes to update a subportion of the base system (when i really should).Just because the update procedure is so simple and only updates necesseray portions of the system, it's the first time in my life when i even read the patches and actually know what has to be patched and why.
I mean..in my point of view..just don't fsck with OpenBSD in those sections you mentioned..
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (208.77.91.37) on Thu Mar 20 17:01:07 2008 (GMT)
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> > Some other unix-like operating systems have come up with tools that perform the all necessary operations (apt, yum). Yes, I know BSD is not the same but that does not mean it can't become easier.
> >
> How can you favour "run apt-get dist-upgrade and no matter what site configuration, no matter what version you're upgrading to, everything will will work fine." over OpenBSD's upgrade support (detailed description of possible problems you would encounter for each specific release, in the upgrade-guide, for both base system and ports??!)
> I mean, that's a feature unique to OpenBSD, wich AMONGS OTHERS, proves it's quality.I personally tried to find this kind of upgrade support and i was totally dissapointed by all other BSD flavours too.
I am absolutely not against OpenBSD's detailed descriptions, they are valuable. However, I think there needs to be tools in base for automation of it.
> PS: I've been a debian/ubuntu administrator for years.So many multiple frustrations from upgrades..
Interestingly our experience differ in that matter. I too have been debian admin for years and so far, all upgrades I have done have worked without problems. May be I've been lucky, but that's what I've seen.
> > The same applies also to patch branch. I think it would be very nice to be able to have a binary upgrade option available to follow the stable.
> It never took me more than 15minutes to update a subportion of the base system (when i really should).Just because the update procedure is so simple and only updates necesseray portions of the system, it's the first time in my life when i even read the patches and actually know what has to be patched and why.
That's great, but imho updates like that should be available in binary format too. If one can binary upgrade between releases, one should be able to binary upgrade within the release. And even tho I could make my own sets and automate things, I shouldn't need to reinvent that wheel or resort to third party tools. It's just busy work I think can be cut down.
> I mean..in my point of view..just don't fsck with OpenBSD in those sections you mentioned..
You sound protective. But I don't fsck anything, I want OpenBSD to become better. OpenBSD has grown when it has offered something better than before (OpenSSH, Open_so_many_other_projects, pf, CARP, etc). I just happen to think by offering improved upgrade path OpenBSD can grow more.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (62.103.255.140) on Mon Mar 24 10:57:41 2008 (GMT)
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> > > Some other unix-like operating systems have come up with tools that perform the all necessary operations (apt, yum). Yes, I know BSD is not the same but that does not mean it can't become easier.
> > >
> > How can you favour "run apt-get dist-upgrade and no matter what site configuration, no matter what version you're upgrading to, everything will will work fine." over OpenBSD's upgrade support (detailed description of possible problems you would encounter for each specific release, in the upgrade-guide, for both base system and ports??!)
> > I mean, that's a feature unique to OpenBSD, wich AMONGS OTHERS, proves it's quality.I personally tried to find this kind of upgrade support and i was totally dissapointed by all other BSD flavours too.
>
> I am absolutely not against OpenBSD's detailed descriptions, they are valuable. However, I think there needs to be tools in base for automation of it.
>
> > PS: I've been a debian/ubuntu administrator for years.So many multiple frustrations from upgrades..
>
> Interestingly our experience differ in that matter. I too have been debian admin for years and so far, all upgrades I have done have worked without problems. May be I've been lucky, but that's what I've seen.
>
> > > The same applies also to patch branch. I think it would be very nice to be able to have a binary upgrade option available to follow the stable.
> > It never took me more than 15minutes to update a subportion of the base system (when i really should).Just because the update procedure is so simple and only updates necesseray portions of the system, it's the first time in my life when i even read the patches and actually know what has to be patched and why.
>
> That's great, but imho updates like that should be available in binary format too. If one can binary upgrade between releases, one should be able to binary upgrade within the release. And even tho I could make my own sets and automate things, I shouldn't need to reinvent that wheel or resort to third party tools. It's just busy work I think can be cut down.
>
> > I mean..in my point of view..just don't fsck with OpenBSD in those sections you mentioned..
>
> You sound protective. But I don't fsck anything, I want OpenBSD to become better. OpenBSD has grown when it has offered something better than before (OpenSSH, Open_so_many_other_projects, pf, CARP, etc). I just happen to think by offering improved upgrade path OpenBSD can grow more.
It may sound strange, but if i see openbsd offering automated upgrade/update procedures, i would get very displeased.The reason is i wouldn't like any extra complexity overhead since i can do my job right now with such confidence you see..
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Noryungi (noryungi) on Thu Mar 20 09:44:20 2008 (GMT)
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While cloning disks is good I've always felt that upgrade path for OpenBSD is a little rough.
Uh?
Some other unix-like operating systems have come up with tools that perform the all necessary operations (apt, yum). Yes, I know BSD is not the same but that does not mean it can't become easier.
Here is how to do it the easy way:
- Boot on the CD-ROM
- Select 'U' for Upgrade
- Once the upgrade has been performed, reboot your computer
- Make sure your root .profile is configured correctly, with a valid PKG_PATH
- As root, enter:
pkg_info | awk '{print $1}' | xargs pkg_add -u -vv -i
That's it, your system is now up-to-date to the latest version (system+packages). Your configuration is intact, your personal directories are there and the machine should be up and running.
Is that so complicated?
Please note that the only exception to the above is if you have a wifi adapter on your machine (like I do) in which case you may need to download an upgraded firmware.
I have done this on 3+ personal machines for at least 3 or 4 past versions of OpenBSD and I have never had any problem. These are not production machines, but OpenBSD has never let me down in that respect.
The same applies also to patch branch. I think it would be very nice to be able to have a binary upgrade option available to follow the stable.
Agreed. That's about the only thing I would say is missing from OpenBSD. There were some sites that offered binary upgrades though.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 3/3)
by sthen (2a01:348:108:155:20a:e4ff:fe2d:99ee) on Thu Mar 20 11:47:26 2008 (GMT)
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> Here is how to do it the easy way:
> - Boot on the CD-ROM
> - Select 'U' for Upgrade
> - Once the upgrade has been performed, reboot your computer
Please don't forget /etc and friends (mergemaster, in packages, is the easy way). Sometimes bugs are fixed, e.g. in /etc/rc or /etc/netstart (as happened between 4.2 and 4.3). Occasionally there are other steps too: -current users should see http://www.openbsd.org/faq/current.html - when upgrading between versions there's a guide produced for each version e.g. http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade42.html.
Even if you make a clean installation rather than upgrading, it's a good idea to read these guides - they will highlight some important changes (e.g. the recent flag day for carp(4) with IP or ARP balancing).
> - Make sure your root .profile is configured correctly, with a valid PKG_PATH
> - As root, enter:
> pkg_info | awk '{print $1}' | xargs pkg_add -u -vv -i
"pkg_add -ui" defaults to updating everything you have installed - no need for the pkg_info part.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (208.77.91.37) on Thu Mar 20 17:17:03 2008 (GMT)
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> Here is how to do it the easy way:
> - Boot on the CD-ROM
> - Select 'U' for Upgrade
> - Once the upgrade has been performed, reboot your computer
> - Make sure your root .profile is configured correctly, with a valid PKG_PATH
> - As root, enter:
> pkg_info | awk '{print $1}' | xargs pkg_add -u -vv -i
>
>
> That's it, your system is now up-to-date to the latest version (system+packages). Your configuration is intact, your personal directories are there and the machine should be up and running.
>
> Is that so complicated?
No, that is not, but it is when boxes are in remote location(s). I think upgrading should as simple for remote boxes as it is for local ones. But right now there is a lot more busy work for the latter option. It is possible to automate it, but I think this needs to be in the base tested and true rather than most people needing to reinvent the same wheel.
> The same applies also to patch branch. I think it would be very nice to be able to have a binary upgrade option available to follow the stable.
>
> Agreed. That's about the only thing I would say is missing from OpenBSD. There were some sites that offered binary upgrades though.
Yes, but I wish it would be in the base.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by oga (87.194.220.76) (oga@openbsd.org) on Wed Mar 26 20:16:52 2008 (GMT)
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> > Here is how to do it the easy way:
> > - Boot on the CD-ROM
> > - Select 'U' for Upgrade
> > - Once the upgrade has been performed, reboot your computer
> > - Make sure your root .profile is configured correctly, with a valid PKG_PATH
> > - As root, enter:
> > pkg_info | awk '{print $1}' | xargs pkg_add -u -vv -i
> >
> >
> > That's it, your system is now up-to-date to the latest version (system+packages). Your configuration is intact, your personal directories are there and the machine should be up and running.
> >
> > Is that so complicated?
>
> No, that is not, but it is when boxes are in remote location(s). I think upgrading should as simple for remote boxes as it is for local ones. But right now there is a lot more busy work for the latter option. It is possible to automate it, but I think this needs to be in the base tested and true rather than most people needing to reinvent the same wheel.
what's so hard about:
cd /
cp sets/bsd /bsd
for i in sets/*.tgz; do
tar xzpvf sets/$i.tgz;
done
reboot
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (87.178.157.140) on Sat Mar 29 20:24:55 2008 (GMT)
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> > > Here is how to do it the easy way:
> > > - Boot on the CD-ROM
> > > - Select 'U' for Upgrade
> > > - Once the upgrade has been performed, reboot your computer
> > > - Make sure your root .profile is configured correctly, with a valid PKG_PATH
> > > - As root, enter:
> > > pkg_info | awk '{print $1}' | xargs pkg_add -u -vv -i
> > >
> > >
> > > That's it, your system is now up-to-date to the latest version (system+packages). Your configuration is intact, your personal directories are there and the machine should be up and running.
> > >
> > > Is that so complicated?
> >
> > No, that is not, but it is when boxes are in remote location(s). I think upgrading should as simple for remote boxes as it is for local ones. But right now there is a lot more busy work for the latter option. It is possible to automate it, but I think this needs to be in the base tested and true rather than most people needing to reinvent the same wheel.
>
>
> what's so hard about:
> cd /
> cp sets/bsd /bsd
> for i in sets/*.tgz; do
> tar xzpvf sets/$i.tgz;
> done
> reboot
Well, I once did such a thing but it fscked up my box. It was a soekris with not enough free cf-disk memory and the unpacking was incomplete. The box was unusable. Of course there was no warning or anything.
Since I am not a very experienced user of OpenBSD yet, it took out the system for some time (which is an understatement).
Had such a thing happened to a remote system ... ugly.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by andy (81.247.26.55) on Thu Mar 20 07:50:42 2008 (GMT)
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don't forget dd (or its cousins) (if you can get off-line).
as with dump, you can do it over ssh as well, and pipe thru gzip or tar to compress.
It doesn't care about the underlying filesystem, so you can copy that weird ntfs partition :-)
contra ? yes its copies everything, even the unused space on the drive/partition.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 1/1)
by Anonymous Coward (24.37.242.64) on Thu Mar 20 12:49:48 2008 (GMT)
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> I use combination of CARP and binpatch for all production machines. Of course it requires redundant machines but hey, we're talking production here.
>
Write an article on what you do and how.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (84.196.222.35) on Thu Mar 20 09:02:33 2008 (GMT)
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> Make sure you've got a couple disk device nodes (ie. wd0 and wd1, or sd0 and sd1 or wd0 and sd1 etc.).
running on 4.x doesn't provide e.g. /dev/wd0 anymore
# cd /dev; sh MAKEDEV wd0
also doesn't create the needed /dev/wd0 device node
disklabel happyly takes wd0 as an argument, so with minor changs to your script it can be made to work.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 1/1)
by Anonymous Coward (84.196.222.35) on Thu Mar 20 10:02:36 2008 (GMT)
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I made a few changes to the script to get it to work:
#!/bin/sh
sourcedisk=wd0
targetdisk=wd1
source=/dev/$sourcedisk
dest=/dev/$targetdisk
# Initialize disk
disklabel $sourcedisk > /tmp/label
fdisk -yi $targetdisk
disklabel -Rr $targetdisk /tmp/label
# Obtain slices to clone
slices=`grep "^ " /tmp/label | cut -c 3 | grep -v c`
rm /tmp/label
# Clone each slice
for i in $slices; do
newfs $dest$i
mount $dest$i /mnt
path=`df -h | grep $source$i | awk '{print $NF}'`
(dump -0f - $path)|(cd /mnt; restore -rf -)
umount /mnt;
done
# Install boot record.
mount ${dest}a /mnt
cp /usr/mdec/boot /mnt/boot
/usr/mdec/installboot -v /mnt/boot /usr/mdec/biosboot $targetdisk
I added two variables to hold just the disknames and used those for the commands that also take this abbreviated form (disklabel, installboot, fdisk)
I also changes ^\ to "^ " which is more readable and better shows that there should be two spaces behinde the backslash, now there is only one, which simply hangs the grep command waiting for input
Hoping this helps others trying to get this script to work
And last but not least, THANKS A LOT for this post/script. I literally had a post-it on my desk today telling me to "FINALLY FIX THAT BACKUP TO SECOND DISK" ;-)
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (24.37.242.64) on Thu Mar 20 11:52:12 2008 (GMT)
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> > I made a few changes to the script to get it to work:
>
> #!/bin/sh
> dd if=/dev/wd0c of=/dev/wd1c
>
Never tried that, does it fully work and make it bootable too?
Also, there's Ghost 4 Unix (G4U):
http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by funky (84.126.117.244) on Thu Mar 20 22:02:21 2008 (GMT)
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> > > I made a few changes to the script to get it to work:
> >
> > #!/bin/sh
> > dd if=/dev/wd0c of=/dev/wd1c
> >
>
> Never tried that, does it fully work and make it bootable too?
It does, at least with linux, I'm quite sure it would do for BSD too.
I've used dd for many many times to clone disks, the only problem is the partition table when you use different size disks.
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (91.50.238.123) on Thu Mar 20 19:45:00 2008 (GMT)
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These kids today ... dump-restore was common practice and knowledge since at least the late nineties. Used that for cloning Sun disks. Hardly "news that matters".
Oops, my bad. This is Undeadly, not Slashdot. Well, ok, never mind :)
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Re: Upgrade Wars: Attack of the Clones (mod 0/0)
by Anonymous Coward (62.167.101.242) on Thu Mar 20 16:57:47 2008 (GMT)
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> Hmm nice.. But,
> How about upgrading without making our system down? Is that possible?
http://openbsd.org/faq/upgrade42.html#upgrade
See "Upgrading without install kernel"
You still have to reboot once though.
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Cross-platform approach using (mod 0/0)
by Ted Walther (24.84.160.227) on Thu Mar 20 17:44:08 2008 (GMT) http://reactor-core.org/
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A number of years ago I had the same problem. At the time, I needed to clone FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and Linux hard drives. And I didn't have a floppy drive or cdrom to use as a "staging area" to hold the boot sectors. Back then bootloaders weren't nearly as nice and advanced as they are now. Accomplishing this task was a pain in the butt.
So I wrote it up into a little HOWTO. You can still view it here Migrating Your System to Another Hard Drive. The procedure still works, although the document shows its age. It just uses tar, mkdir, and fdisk.
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